Bashiok on Unlocking Tyrael’s Face

Posted 12th Jun 2009 09:30 AM by Flux

Bashiok hit on two more issues today, with posts about chests/keys, and Tyrael’s face.

Will there be keys and locked things in the game?

Blizzard Quote:

I don’t think it’s a surprise that chests aren’t the highest of priorities at the moment, so final design on them is lacking, but personally I think requiring a key for them really only plays into a classical sense of what chests are in an roleplaying game. And… I think we’re just sort of past that in terms of game focus and design. We can logically and realistically map out how chests and their loot effects a game and its players, and design accordingly. There’s no reason to require a key for what is essentially nostalgia.

You’re already fighting against the odds. First did a chest even spawn at all? If it did what quality of a chest is it? If it’s a high quality chest then let the game roll and see if anything even worth picking up pops out. Y’know? It’s a lot of “ifs” and hopes to then also throw an item requirement on top of just to see what the dice show.

I won’t disagree with the… ceremony (uh oh dangerous words) of having a key that then opens a lock. That’s very tangible and real and fulfills a certain desire for work and reward. I carry a key, it opens a lock, good things are behind the lock. But we obviously want to impact inventory as little as possible, and carrying keys just feels like a punishment. Coming across a chest and not having a key, that doesn’t feel fun, that’s really aggravating. Another punishment. Having keys take up no space and be almost infinite in quantity to resolve both those problems and the reason to have keys disappears completely.

So is there any reason to have keys except to fulfill some sense of nostalgia that we know there are locked chests in games, and we need keys to open them.

I don’t ask that rhetorically, sometimes keeping things identifiable and seeming “right”, reminding us of the feeling of past games makes the experience better. So please discuss.

Why isn’t Tyrael’s face ever visible?

Blizzard Quote:

From what I’ve heard, Angels are vibrations of light and sound and don’t hold a corporeal form.

Having read the first book in the sin war trilogy the angels are exactly as bashiok said, vibrations and light. they can manifest a face and body but it is only a form to hide their true identity to mortals.

Ah right, right, they can create a human appearance for themselves (I think Inarius did for prideful reasons?) Not unlike some demons have, although their natural form is obviously far more tangible… and gross.

8 comments

Filed under: Blue Posts, Diablo III Features, NPCs, Bashiok

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Jugalator

Posted 12, Jun 2009 11:32 AM

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I don’t think chests with keys are necessarily a bad idea, although I think they are in Diablo II. My problem with locked Diablo II chests is that the keys are super cheap, and the rewards are usually so poor. So it just ends up being a hassle purchasing the keys.

But what if these locked chests were noticeably less common, much better rewarding, and with keys that actually cost you something? So it would be a minor “gaming event” if you stumbled upon one, with a few cheers from your team mates?

I think that could end up playing out completely different than our Diablo II chests, and the style I believe Bashiok is talking about here.

In the name of Zod

Posted 12, Jun 2009 11:36 AM

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This got me interested in D3 again. There is a decision people have to make as to how many keys to carry. Also if they had allowed us to carry keys on the belt as keys should be then maybe it wouldn’t be an issue that needs discussion. Keys have potential to be interesting, its all in their implementation. Do you have only 1 type of key, do keys only open chest or doors too. Should keys be reusable? I’m sure there’s more.

Bandreus

Posted 12, Jun 2009 11:59 AM

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What just didn’t work with me about locked chests and keys in D2 is you basicly had to carry keys with you all the time (that one tiny precious inventory slot…), only to be able to open chests which, most of the times, did contain mainly trash.

Now, I’m not at all against keys to open chests. What I think is in D3, whith the scripted events engine in place, that could be implemented in a more engaging way. Maybe you’re wandering around the lands of sanctuary when you find that mistery locked chest, so if you really wish to open it you have to search the nearby (put place that suits well to you) for the monster holding the key. Other times you could even be required to solve some kind of puzzle.

That are only some possible and interesting ways to implement the mechanic in the game into smart and rewarding scenarios. You would even avoid the locked-chest-containing-crap issue entirly, since the player having to put some real effort in opening it (other than carrying with him a bunch of keys all the time) will allow designers to put worthy things in them accordingly to the involved task.

Now ,on the nostalgia effect I’d really like to point out D&D games have always been full of locks (and traps) mainly to give thieves an important role into the party. No wonder this locks are not at the top of blizzard’s to-do list

Flux

Posted 12, Jun 2009 12:47 PM

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I don’t think anyone would disagree with Bashiok that keys and locked chests were irrelevant in D2. (Jay Wilson said something similar in a past interview, so I think the team’s of one mind on this issue.)

That said, my thought when reading Bashiok’s comment was, “what about the Keys of Terror/hate/lust/sloth/etc?.” Those are keys that are much sought after, and are fun and exciting to find since you need them for the uber quests. That only 1 monster can drop each key makes them a resource to harvest, rather than a surprise bonus, but they are special keys that unlock special things. (Unless you’re playing SP, in which case they’re annoying and useless.)

So here’s my D3 locked chest idea. Make the keys and the chests quite rare, and make the chests very exciting. A chest might pop 1 gold, 5 rares/uniques, a boss monster pack, etc. The point is that the chests are very rare, the keys are rarer, and the chests do a lot, with a lot of variety. It’s just another slot machine in the game, but that’s the whole point of D2’s appeal, in the end.

Grumpy Old Wizard

Posted 12, Jun 2009 04:34 PM

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The assassin not needing keys was a nice touch to the class in D2.

I’m not too upset either way if D3 does or does not have keys. But I think you could have some locked chests that would be guarenteed to up the treasure a bit or ahve a very good chance of better treasure and most folks would not mind keys then.

Kunzaito

Posted 12, Jun 2009 06:34 PM

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I’m with Bandreus and Flux. I think there are definitely ways that keys and chests can be included in D3 in a much more fun and relevant way. I think particularly as a quest mechanic or even a sub-level mechanic. Imagine in D2 that when you ran an Act 2 tomb there was a key hidden on the level somewhere as well as the chest, but the chest rewards were enhanced a bit. Like Flux said, it just gives you more stuff to do, more stuff to find, and more ways to pull the lever.

Mikeztarp

Posted 12, Jun 2009 09:11 PM

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An anecdotic idea: bosses in minor dungeons could give a key to unlock a chest on a higher level in their dungeon, making the process of climbing up cleared levels a tad less tedious.